Winterr's words

Sunday, January 29, 2006

the title

Last night I watched the Australian open tennis. I didn't particularly "go" for anyone, because I liked them both (Roger Federer and Marcos Baghatis)
Well Roger Federer won and I got emotional for Marcos because he looked so sad.
Then I got all emotional over Roger, because he began to get emotional, and throughout the game he looked so serious. Ohhh well, as I say let the best man win.

I have been reading the new Encyclical over again, but slowly, there is so much in it that sometimes I have to read the same paragraph 3 times to totally understand it.
There is a great many things to learn about love.
Jonathan wrote a commentry about some of it, which I shall be reading, if my eyes can still focus on words!

On another note I want to write about RU-486, seriously if you are thinking of taking it, then think again, this abortive morning after pill is very unethical, and destroys the gift of life. Indeed, killing an unborn child.
When a woman is given RU-486 (also called Mifepristone), it " kills" her baby by interfering with progesterone, which is the hormone that keeps the baby implanted in the wall of the mother’s uterus.
Then after 2 days, the woman returns to the clinic to receive a prostaglandin drug which induces labour and expels the dead embryo (RU-486 is used until 7 weeks after the first day of her last menstrual period).
If the baby hasn’t been expelled by the time the woman makes her third visit to the doctor, she will require a surgical abortion procedure (5-8% likelihood). Raymond, Klein & Dumble, the pro-abortion authors of RU486 Misconceptions, Myths and Morals, (IWT Pub, 1991) stress that RU-486 is not safe for women and list the following contraindications (reasons a person should not take RU-486): under age 18 or over 35; menstrual irregularities; history of fibroids, abnormal menstrual bleeding or endometriosis cervical incompetence, previous abortion, or abnormal pregnancies; pelvic inflammatory disease; recent use of IUD or the pill 3 months.

This is some information I found on the net,, which I wanted to post up here.
I know that a baby is separate from the mothers body, only connected by the umbilical cord, so to state that aborting is the mothers right, then you are stating a severe untruth, the life simply belongs to the child and God.
Just adding, as Kristiesue posted in my comments, no one says that the mother has to keep the baby, give it to someone else! really 9 months and it's out.
posted by Grace B at 3:30 PM


Hey there!
That was a great post. I haven't managed to read the encyclical yet but I've heard some great stuff about it! I will head over to Jonathan's place now to read his comments.

eugh I didn't know that the woman had to return to the hospital to get more injections to further destroy her baby once she'd taken the RU-486 pill.
it's horrendous.
'Abortion in the comfort of your own home'

bye for now!

5:38 AM  

Amen! The older I get, the more convinced I am that so much of the "sexual revolution", including ABC and RU486 are perpetuated on women for the pleasure of men...

5:51 AM  

Carmel, I'm going to get serious for a sec. And before I write, I want you to know that I dont hold people's opinions against them (except in certain cases i.e. racism) That being said, I may not agree with abortion, but I do agree with the right to choose.

This pill sounds like a poor excuse to have unprotected sex.

Anyway, im out. (1 week to go for my tattoo =) yay)

7:56 AM  

Jon Thomsen....

The "right" to choose is such an over-rated statement.

Society has decided that there are some things that people DON'T have the right to choose...

For example, I don't have the right to murder all Muslims.

I don't have the right to encourgae anti-Jewish sentiments.

I don't have the right to stand on a bridge and throw bricks at passing cars.

And rightly so!
Society has determined that all the things above are intrinsically evil and wrong, and therefore, even if people WANT to, they dont have any right whatsoever to do them.

In the similar way, just because someone WANTS to have a abortion...doesn't mean they should have the right to.

Abortion doesn't only affect the mother, it affects someone else (..the baby!)

Abortion is the ending of SOMEONE ELSE'S life.

Society has arbitrarily decided that, before birth, it's okay for someone else to kill you if they want to...

but why should that be the case?

Why should someone else decide whether you get the chance to be born?

It's certainly an intrinsically evil act.

So because someone WANTS to do it, that doesn't mean they should have the RIGHT to.

And not only that, but just because someone wants to, doesn't mean we should facilitate them in doing it, and in making it easier for them.

I don't agree with the right to choose abortion, because I believe there are some things we SHOULD NOT have the right to choose...

and intentionally taking away someone else's life, is one of those things.


Also, Carmel...I found this! Kinda links on with your RU-486 story & is from Australia:

10:52 AM  

I'm so sorry I am not meaning to be intolerant but there are some things I just cannot stand for. Being a mother I cannot imagine the type of person who would actually have an abortion! Uncaring, selfish, murderer those are just a few words I would use to describe them. The very least a woman could do for her unborn baby is let it live. No one is asking her to care for it. There are thousands willing to adopt a new born baby. If you think abortion is okay and it's the womans right to choose go look at what they're killing. I want to warn you in advance do not open this site if you can't handle it... The pictures are graphic

1:58 PM  

i mean no offence to anyone


I think you mis-understood what i was saying. I didnt say I agree with abortion, but in certain situations I can understand where the mom and dad (yah both, cuz its just as hard on both) come from.

i.e. Lets say a happily married woman is raped, and gets pregant. How hard would it be for a father and a mother to raise a child born that way. Or if a child was born with a major brain problem, like, the kid wont even know he is even living. In some cases its more humane to do.

That being said, I DO NOT agree with abortions in the cases where the mother is just lazy, or ir-responsible.

8:37 PM  

also, please dont hate me for my opinions, because society has come to far to be hateful about sharing views and expressing ideas.

KristieSue: Child birth is pretty gross to watch to. (lol) and you ever seen a tumor being removed, or amputation. Most medical proceedures aren't exactly "PG-13"

And yes, i do think that adoption is a FAR better option for children.

8:45 PM  

No one hates you!
I realise you are against abortion in some ways and would prefer to see the baby go to caring parents. I'm glad you shared that. (you are the only man hope you don't feel outnumbered!)

Let me share with you my take, but at the same time, remember that I am respecting your thoughts, and share your dislike of abortion, to a certain extent. and we can share them all together.
What I would say is that, when God creates a life, he puts his "purpose" into that life, you have a purpose, and a very important and special one. God loves you because you are his child.
So when a child is in the womb, I believe that this is a "person" who God created for a purpose, and that God loves this child, no matter what the mother feels.
If the mother is unfit to be a mother, she should adopt the baby, but some don't and that is unfortunate and a very bad choice, because they can cause harm to this child.
Causing harm to the child is treating the child like it is not it's own person and is treating the child like it "belongs" to her right? When in fact, she has no right to lay a hand on it.
This is the same way that I feel about abortion, that no body has the authority to choose whether the life should end. I also feel that nobody should assume that their life is more important than someone elses, including an unborn child.
If the child is deformed or a vegetable, does that mean our life is more important because we are not handicapped?

That's my take on abortion. Again Jon, i'm not taking offense or disliking you, I like you, that's why I read your blog, Just because we differ in opinions, doesnt mean that you are not a special dude!
Yay for your tattoo, you better show us! Keep your faith growing strong.
God bless

10:05 PM  

Thanks for the link, I enjoyed that blog and that particular article.
Thanks for your lovely comment too, i'mg lad you liked the post.

Yeah I think you are right indeed!

AMEN!! :) (I still must go paintballing)

11:23 PM  

YIKES! I'm all pro-life! Being a single mom of two beautiful boys. I am truly blessed to have these children as I was told by docs and gynos that I would never ever concieve due to ovarian cysts and my uterus being tilted "backwards" even thought there is a higher percentage of women with a uterus that tilts "backwards" but anyways.... children are a blessing from God! And thats just it, a child in the womb can't say hey like "Yo ma! I have decided to be removed from you womb as of right now!" It is only 9 months. I think that adoption is something alot more people should consider! There are so many people out there who truly cannot have children and hurt so badly as they feel they may never ever be able to look into a childs eyes they can call their own.

11:47 PM  

Hey Jon!
aww! I don't hate you! Nothing of the sort! I'm sorry if my post sounded a bit harsh & came across that way.



12:25 AM  

Also let this be a reminder of what selfish sex without love causes, "unwanted" children, who never asked to be begat!.. sad.

Ohhh Antonia, you are too lovely to be harsh, you gave a wonderful example and have taught me a thing or 2.

2:19 AM  

Wow! That's a fabulous story! Thank you so much for telling about it on my blog. Testimony of God's work in our lives is what encourages others to keep going I believe. What a beautiful gift (2 gifts) you recieved!
*ok and cute too :OD
Perhaps God has given the 3 of you another gift in your lives, being Mr.infinigeist (and given him 3)

2:40 AM  

I hope I don't seem hateful in any of my comments. Please understand that I highly respect everyone's right to their own opinion. I would rather agree to disagree than get in a fight any day.

I would like to expound upon my last comment a little after reading some other comments made.

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 NKJV
Rejoice always, pray without ceasing in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Now I have experienced some dreadful things in my life and it is extremely hard to see the good in bad things and give thanks for them BUT I believe that is how God builds my testimony.

I'm not saying a woman who's been raped was raped because God wanted it to happen. The Bible tells us it rains on the just and the unjust. God is telling us though that we should give thanks in ALL things. Imagine what a powerful testimony for the Lord a woman having been raped and impregnated would have raising her child. What love and courage that would show. But what does an abortion accomplish for such a situation? It's just another wrong being committed. And for a woman who's been wronged in such a way as being raped to inflict an even greater wrong on an even more innocent being is so evidently unjust to me.

I know not everyone believes the Bible is the true unfallible word of God but I do and I base my morals upon it's teachings. In todays world everyone has situational ethics. I don't believe in them. It's either right or wrong. I'm not telling you you're wrong if you disagree please understand this is all my point of view. But how is it not selfish for a raped woman to kill a baby who had nothing to do with her being wronged?

Ok end rant. I love the blog and encourage everyone to take their agressions out on the paintball field nearest you :p

9:26 AM  

HEHEH WHERES THE LOCAL PAINTBALL FIELD HERE IN VERNON? :) lol. Those graphics are disturbing in that link but a disgusting reality. It made me ill looking at "unwanted life". Life is a blessing!!!!!A GIFT FROM GOD!

10:46 AM  

I love pro life/choice battles.

One should not confuse the right to murder with the responsibility of facing real-world consequences for your actions.

There are no such things as rights, anyway. These "rights", as they are articulated, are merely assertions by individuals for their own selfish gains. Often, as I see done here, these assertions are made upon others "arbitrarly" with little or no care about the impact these assertions will have on the quality of that person's life.

Any meat-eaters in the audience? To my fellow meat-eaters who condone the murder of innocent animals, where do we get the "right"? To the vegetarians, you're all murderers too. Your prey is just a lot easier to catch.

Some would say "need" gives us the right to kill animals, as in the need to sustain oneself. And those people would have a lot of friends to support them because it's a common thing to be viewed that way. However, equally important as physical needs to the quality of human life are emotional and psychological needs. And in those cases, the need not to have a baby can arise in an individual. It's not anymore selfish to have this need and execute plans to satisfy it than it is to determine for another one of God's creatures what is right or wrong "arbitrarly".

Judge not lest...

For the record, I'm pro-life, all the way, when it comes to humans. I allow my self this egotistical notion that human life is worth more than animal life, even though humans are much worse behaved. However, there is no such thing as a human that isn't born first and enculturated. This means abortion is OK. You wouldn't be killing anybody if they didn't exist yet anyway.

I love this following excerpt from the song "Hero" by Ministry for how well it shows that which we "need" to consider "right" is really just a notion of collected power when we draw upon societal opinions for the justification of our actions:

"It's not a matter of rights
it's just a matter of war
Don't need a reason to fight
We never had one before

It's just a killing machine
It's come to take you down
We'll take the gas that we need
And pump your blood on the ground."

PS - A note to my baby: Your uterus is tilted?!?!

11:07 AM  

You are a dear friend, being that dear friend I believe that I can tell you where I disagree with some of your view, without you casting me to the pits right?

I'm glad you value life and are "pro-life" but I disagree where you say this:

"However, there is no such thing as a human that isn't born first and enculturated. This means abortion is OK. You wouldn't be killing anybody if they didn't exist yet anyway."

to "exist" means to have life, and to be real. Whether inside a womb or inside a crib, that unborn baby is real and does have life, because it is 'living'
So what gives "us" the right to determine whether this living and real being can come out into the world alive, or come into the world dead?
You cannot kill the living child and say that it doesnt exist, it comes out dead, and that dead body is real, only now it would not exist.
This is why miscarriages hurt mothers and fathers, because they know that their child died.

As for animals, I don't know what gives us that right, i'm not so sure on that and I admit it.
I love the lyrics to that song also, thanks.

3:06 PM  

Thats why im vegetarian, I came to the realization that I couldnt eat anything with a face.

(also, wow, this post has TONS of comments. VERY cool)

3:32 PM  

It's always interesting to think about the fact that when someone kills a woman who is pregnant, they are tried for two counts of murder (the woman and the baby inside of her), yet it is legal (at least in the U.S.) for a woman to kill the baby inside of her. Doesn't make much sense to me!

9:56 PM  

Just one quick comment about the vegeterian thing...

Genesis Chapter 1:

" Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and conquer it. Be masters of the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

The animals were all made FOR man, and man was intended to conquer them and to use them for his own benefit and survival. So eating animals is perfectly acceptable.

I know lots of vegeterians who are pro-abortion.....which I think is an increadibly absurd stance because they are elevating animals' worth to above humans' worth.

I'm not saying that I agree with unnecessary cruelty to animals, because I definitly don't! Animals desereved to be treated with kindness as God's creatures, but it must be kept in mind that animals are here FOR us, and for our own benefit, and so we *can* use them for that.

12:31 AM  

You beat me to it Antonia good job. I was going to say basically the same thing after reading that. I just want to add one little snippet...

Genesis 9:2
And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things even as the green herbs.

And Revelations also tells us not to add to or take away from the word of God. I know being a vegetarian is a personal choice but to say that killing an animal is murder is unbiblical.

My personal opinion ;)

9:20 AM  

Sorry I didn't get the verse 3 in there too Genesis 9:2-3

9:22 AM  

The problem with the "god created animals for food" thing gets to me. I believe in the bible. But I have a very hard time being told what and when to do something.

Just because animals were created for food (if they were) doesnt mean you have to abide by it.

I.e. Gun's were created for the purpose of killing, nothing more, not self-defence, just plain killing. Does it mean that everyone should and has to kill? nope. Its the same with toothbrushes, lol.

And also, the next time you bite into that fatty, blood filled, leg of chicken, rememeber that, at one time, that chick had a mother. Don't give me the whole "oh, its a chicken, they dont know their mothers" cuz thats bullshit.

Yah, and veal is real f**king great too. Read up on it. See how they treat baby calfs.

1 last thing for me on this post, i'd like to point out that human's caused all of the world's enviromental problems, and that we ARE NOT the most intellegent species on the planet.


Peace to everyone.

3:09 PM  

Hi there Jon,
I think that the commenters above are just explaining that it's "ok" to eat meat, but not that you "have" to eat it.

Also, the bible is saying that man is "master" over the animals, but it's not talking about the intelligence level.

So yes anmials are to be treated kindly and do not have to be eaten if one wishes not to.

3:45 PM  

heh, sorry carmel, the vegetarian thing is just a touchy subject for myself, i didnt mean to post that way.

I apologize for sounding angry.

3:54 PM  

you're doing fine Jon, no need to apologize

4:27 PM  

I agree being a Vegetarian is a "personal preferance" I wasn't trying to say it was wrong. Everyone has the right to choose for their own reasons. Same as I have the right to choose and the freedom has been given to me to do that. That is not so in all things such as murder and breaking the law. I also don't think God made animals to be our food. Originally humans did not eat animals we were one with them it changed after the flood when God put the fear of man into the animals and gave them to us for food.

10:28 AM  

Homo sapien has the capacity to not become human. In the absence of fellow humans, a homo sapien will, at best, stay an animal.

Look at the wild boy of aveyron. Once past that critical point and age in childhood development, a homo sapien creature does not possess the capacity to become a human. Humanity is a trait inaugurated by fellow humans, not the static environment, and not biology. There is nothing "human" built into us.

So if any here would contend that the wild boy of aveyron had a soul, just because he was once a "human" fetus, and that it's enough to just look human in order to be considered human, then apes are just hairy people. (And I'm just a semi-hairless ape :p)

I think it's very nice to have the bible that says you can murder this for this reason and not that for that reason. I, on the other hand, have to realise the right and wrong of things from the ground up without the benefit of instructional aids. Life alone is my bible. Its a much more current version of God's work, I think.

12:15 AM  

tell me why a mother can be on her way to an abortion clinic (pregnant of course) when she is struck by a drunk driver and killed. The drunk driver is charges with 2 counts of vehicular manslaughter, but yet the mother has the "right" to take the childs life? No one has the right to end a human life.

Here in Florida, a mother can walk into any police, fire or EMT station and hand them a child, turn around and walk out, NO questions asked. We simply take the child. NO QUESTIONS.

10:43 AM  

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